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Interview summary for Swaranjit Johal

Weds 30th March 2022 11.30am

Swaranjit is Pat Smith’s daughter (interview 4)

India, Punjab, Chandrigahr

My daughter liked the project and my daughter said I liked talking about my experiences so I should take part. My daughter asked if there was anything I remember about coming to Heathrow. I arrived here in 1964. I come from India, Punjab, Chatigar. My husband was a teacher. He then moved to England.

I grew up in Fiji with my mum, dad and grandfather after I was 2 years, I was born in India, I grew up and after Pakistan/India divide, I went back 1947, I teach ladies stitching, my husband was the principal of a school. I liked my life I did not want to come to England. My family, brothers and sisters were in England. My father said I should go to England with my children.

My husband, brother, and sister were here. After we arrived my daughter cried, and my son was sick - he liked India. I wanted my mum and dad. We had a nice house in India, but Indian wages were low, UK wages were high and there were clean, nice facilities. Everyone said I should come here.

I grew up in Fiji different to India, all countries different, love it here money and nice house in India with servant, but wages low. Siblings, all happy in Uk because wages higher. She knew what England would be like. Leaving home is quite difficult. It was March and April with snow, so very cold, no home delivery, no garlic, no Indian shop, nothing in Southall only English shop, no supermarkets, no green chilies. Only shepherds bush and Birmingham. Only that all the family were together, now I am happy, I have a nice house, everything is clean, now I like England.

It was hard when I first arrived. No car, no big house, no servants, everyone shares the house, children needed looking after, job paid £3 wages. My first job at Heathrow was in the Queens Building. I washed and cut potatoes, making chips by hand. Not allowed to wear trousers, had to wear stockings, skirt, and dress, top and gown. I peeled and cut potatoes and made chips, mashed potato – Friday and Tuesday fish and chips. Lots of people smoked, I did not like the smell. First arrive at 7 in the morning, leave in a van which will pick me up from home at 6 o’clock. 10-minute tea break, lunch break ½ hour, finish job at 5, go home in van, no convenient bus available to Heathrow, only 1 bus in the morning and 1 bus in the evening. 5 days of work gave me £2.50. A man doing the same job got £4.50 and I get £3. No equal wages. Same job, but men got paid more, ladies less. I could go shopping with 25p-50p and take home 2 bags of shopping in both hands. £1 weekly rent. After I start British Airways job, I got a £5 note. Same work – kitchen cleaning, cutting potatoes. My husband worked in a factory getting £5 but ladies doing the same job got £3.50. Same in India, but now things are more equal. Slowly everything grew. I first worked in Heathrow 1 and Queens’s building.

16.30

My husband came to collect me from Airport when I arrived. Heathrow had nothing at the Airport. Same as Delhi Airport, nothing there. We had to stop at various places including Frankfurt. (She thought she landed in the jungle). It was a very long journey. Not everyone had a car, some English and old people had 1 car. My brother's friend had a car, 6/7 people drive this car. A few people used a van to get to factory/airport doing any jobs. No bus service. 5p, 2p, 1p. Everything was a penny or ha’penny. One penny bus fare to hospital. Same in India – small money. I have lived in Langly since 1974. I grew all sorts of things, mustard seeds etc. More terminals have been developed since. Now planes are nice. The first time coming here, it took 3 days to get here from Delhi.

17.50

1st day I start my first day in the Queens building. 3rd day since arriving from India. Washing by hand. I had my children in India, a boy and a girl. I worked in the staff restaurant. All staff do the same jobs – one day cleaning, 1 day preparing food, only frozen peas and cabbage, no foreign food. Restaurant and washing up. I worked for BAA (British Airports Authority), now run by a different company.

At British Airways I washed up in the aircraft, put crockery in machine for cleaning, crockery, glasses, cutlery – now is disposable. My neighbour told me about a job starting the next day, I tried for job (told existing job I had guests coming so could not work). After I went to British Airways, fill in farm and check passport, after medical and test/interview, after 2 weeks they gave me a job washing up, started later in 1964. Cleaning the aircraft, then helping the cook in the kitchen. Then I got a job in a staff canteen. Making sandwiches, tea coffee etc. After 10 months doing the job, he cut a lot of jobs, and new people started. Then I worked at Ealing and Hillingdon Hospital. I had cleaning work and school dinner lady job. After I did this job, I got a job at Air Canada for 3 months - change blankets, pillows, cleaning, hoovering etc. Making food, packing, aircraft cleaning, pick up trolley service, lots of jobs. After the British Airways job, I worked in Hillingdon Hospital (she left British Airways 5 times). I also worked at Air India; the work was seasonal. I also worked at Hounslow medical factory 5 days a week, very happy, this was a 9am start and 4pm finish. My husband drove the van and did night jobs. When the job ended, I got a lumpsum of money. My daughter went to Oxford College.

29.50

1974 I started a permanent job with British Airways. I worked in the canteen, cooking, cleaning everything. Very happy, aircraft tickets were free, my daughter used these to travel to studies in Canada. After my children married, I finished my job, I took early retirement, I took a lump sum. My daughter went to Canada for studies. I worked at terminal 2. They offered me £10,000 or shares. This was in 1988. I did not work anywhere after this, I bought house and rented out, I then rented houses, buying and selling property here and in India. Terminal 5 is nice and clean. Sometimes in summer one of my friends invites me to go out to terminal 5 to have a cup of tea. I do not really like terminal 4, it’s very different. Terminal 5 is the best terminal.

33.50

I have travelled lots, I’ve been to lots of countries, Canada, America etc. British airways was a good job, I was very happy. I enjoy terminal 5. Heathrow airport is the best, terminal 5 is the best, nice, great service, nice and clean. I can see planes from the kitchen window on the other side. The bus goes to terminal 5, nearby. I love this house. I am happy here. Nice buildings, lots of money spent, money on roads etc.

Some people live 5 minutes up the road and hear noise. On my side there is no runway, on the other side there is a runway and a lot of noise. This house I live along my husband 10 year died. Every plane coming, I am happy and proud to live in London and near Heathrow.

When Heathrow flights were suspended in Covid it was quiet, it was lonely, everybody felt enclosed, everywhere very peaceful. Now people like going on holiday. During covid I would see 1 plane after 2/3 hours, so it was quiet. Now flights back to flying a lot. Heathrow lost money. No buses, buses suspended. The airlines lost money.

There was lots of community working at Heathrow, India, China, Gujarati. Now everyone wants to work in office jobs at Heathrow. There are lots of companies at Heathrow. A lot of friends have died, I am now 87, I am lucky. I missed my friends lost during the coronavirus. My children looked after me. Now I am a heart patient. I am feeling ok. I am not upset; I am happy thank God. my daughter used airline standby benefit to go to Canada and comeback every 6 months. I went to all countries with husband using the British Airways benefit.

42.46

I travelled on Concorde, day off, supervisor said it was travelling to Glasgow. I went in the morning and came back in the evening. I went to Paris, there were lots of empty seats. I drank soft drinks and had food. Not a single penny paid. My husband and I went on a Concorde flight for £5 each. Sitting in 1st class seats, drinking, feeling quite different to standard class. The Concorde was very noisy when it started going up and coming down. I travelled on Concorde 20 times. Supervisor would change my day off. Everyone looks after each other like brothers and sisters. Some ladies say they do not want to fly with men, but I do not mind. Sometimes standby seat there were problems from Delhi. Sometimes I get club seats, first class. One time me and my husband had a private bathroom going to Canada. The first time I went to Italy on holiday I lost the passports, a lady took my bag. All our cash, passports etc. All stolen. Someone sprayed me and took my handbag. I had to go to the police station. (she was taking care of all the passports, and they all got stolen. Dad was worried as he thought they might think they were refugees. When they got to the police station there was a queue because they were not the only victims). British Airways helped and sent the tickets again, we did not have to pay for replacement tickets. My husband was working in civil service, my daughter had to go on to university.

50.55

My most significant memory at Heathrow is the first time I landed at Heathrow – it was in the middle of nowhere (she felt as though she was in the jungle), one building, one house in the village. No car, no deliveries. Little plane – quite different now. Now it is different, very posh England, Heathrow airport very posh.

I started my first job in the UK 3 days after arriving in England. I had never worn a skirt and stockings before (it was a big deal to wear stockings). I was not allowed to wear pajamas, I had a top and skirt, stockings, white cap and white overalls. The first days were difficult, washing by hand 2/3 days, I mixed all right with English ladies and boys, people of all nationalities. One Indian man spoke to me and said you will be used to it after one week. Some ladies were very shy, people were talking English, my English bad, but they said do not worry. I was told to slowly wash, not fast. No one was bad or unkind. People spoke nicely, some people from my own country were jealous, other people nice and friendly. I would make tea, everyone liked me, everyone is different. Everybody helped me.

In India I was a housewife, I taught women embroidery, sewing and knitting. At first, I found everything difficult here, I missed the ladies. I had a helper who cooked, cleaned, and looked after the children, here nobody helped. Sometimes I cried, 2-3 years it was very hard, I wanted to go back.

The first time I lived here with my brothers and sisters, after 3 months we bought a house. It felt difficult, sometimes we all cried. My husband worked night work. Sometimes I felt like a servant here. After 5-10 years I was happy. My husband was understanding, my husband cooked and looked after me, he had a hard job. Family is happiness.

English people are a lot better than Canadian and Americans who fight too much. This is my favourite country; it is my country now. My daughter married an English man. She has a nice mother and father-in-law, she is happy. I like everything, it is very peaceful.

Interview finished 01.05.40

Date: 28 March 2022
Interviewee: Asad Parkar

Asad found out about the project in two ways. One of his colleagues who works on the ‘enhance network’ told him about the project, and he saw the PDF posted online on the team site at work. He was interested in participating because he is South Asian himself and he felt it was important to record and document the evidence of people who work at Heathrow, who work locally, people who are affected both as employees and those who are affected by it. He also uses the airport for travel.

Asad was born in Mumbai, India, 1996. He spent most of his childhood there, moving to the UK (United Kingdom) in December 2005. His Dad had got a job there. He completed the initial visa process, returned to India, and finished the year of Year 3 which is equivalent to Year 4 here. Then he came back to the UK in April 2006 where he went into Year 5 at Ryvers Primary, finished Year 6, and then went to Burnham Grammar School. where he did Years 7-13. After finishing school, Asad went to Brunel University where he did his masters degree. He has since finished the graduate scheme at Heathrow and is now in his permanent role there.

Asad’s very first experience of Heathrow was in 2004 when he and his family took an extended holiday to Europe. They went to France where they stayed in Paris for a week, had a few days in Switzerland, and stayed in London for a week and a bit. He either arrived at Terminal 3 (T3) or Terminal 4 (T4) as Terminal 5 (T5) did not exist yet. It was his first time coming to a western country as a child. He remembers being quite excited as he has always loved planes. He does not remember much about the airport itself, but he does remember the Heathrow Express quite vividly as they did not have subways or anything like it in Mumbai. He was thrilled to be on a train that went through tunnels. It was fascinating and exciting for him as a child and as someone who has loved engineering all their life. The transfer through the airport was his first experience of the UK.

It was probably not as efficient as it is today as it was still state owned. In terms of efficiency, it was not as efficient as it is today, but he does not remember anything negative. It was still mostly positive. Staff interaction was nice.

Heathrow is very different to Mumbai. He remembers Mumbai airport vividly. It was only five or six years ago that it got a new terminal. He remembers it being basic, the layout was poor, it was a case of make do, and the terminal was a horseshoe shape. This was not the best for passenger flow as passengers had to navigate this to get to various points such as passport control. There were a lot more steps. At Heathrow, immigration is only done on arrival, in India, immigration is done on arrival and departure. Now Mumbai airport is focusing more on customer service, passenger amenities are important, there is access to duty-free whereas before they did not have any of this. The passengers experience is really important, and airports are focusing on that now.

Asad joined Heathrow in September 2019 on the graduate engineering team, formally called the Engineering Future Leaders Scheme. It was originally a two-year rotational scheme, rotating within the different departments. For the first few months he was heavily shadowing, the airport control engineers in the operations centre looking at active performance, technical sides, etc. March 2020 when Covid pandemic hit, he had only been with the company five/six months, so he was helping the engineering resilience team with the Covid response from the UK perspective at the airport. April 2020, he was furloughed for around four months till mid-July, returning at the end of July. From then, he worked in several different departments before ‘ending up’ in his current role as an engineering resilience partner. As part of their remit, the engineering resilience department is responsible for contingency planning for engineering assets across the airport, for example making contingency plans should an emergency or incident occur so that staff have a process to follow. They also respond to incidents, coordinating command and control, and early response to incidents. The department also works closely with the airport’s central resilience team, transport service providers and others.

Asad applied to as many companies as he could as it is a cutthroat market, even before Covid, not just for graduate jobs but for any job, especially in engineering. He remarks that there is a constant high demand for engineers, and it is extremely hard to have the knowledge and experience before going into a role. Initially when applying for the Grad schemes, not just Heathrow but as many companies as possible to give him the best chance of getting a job. Heathrow was just one on the list of companies that he applied to for employment. The more he went through the process (recruitment), the more he realised that he would love to work here (Heathrow). It is quite exciting. Few people get to say that they work at an airport, go to the airside, and look at planes every day. The office is very different to a traditional office environment, where someone sits at their desk every day. Asad acknowledges that although he is sitting at his desk while giving the interview, he could have chosen to give it airside or from the control tower. He comments that the more he went through the recruitment process at Heathrow, the more he started to feel that he would genuinely like to work here. At the assessment centre, he met one of his colleagues who had also been at university with Asad but had graduated the year before and had a chat with him because they had not seen each other since university. Asad thinks that seeing him helped, his friend was enjoying himself there. Asad also mentions meeting other staff there, the people who were interviewing him, those assessing him, and people who were running the day in terms of logistics. He mentions that everyone seemed nice and for him it is important that not only should he enjoy going to work but that he should enjoy working with the people there. The face-to-face interaction during the recruitment process really enforced that. He received the offer, and, in his heart, he knew that he wanted to work at Heathrow, but he had already accepted another offer. He felt bad about reneging on the offer that he had accepted from the other company, but he knew that Heathrow was where he wanted to work.

Asad has opportunities to progress in his work. He comments that he believes that there were more opportunities pre- Covid, however, these may be fewer, but they are still there. He also mentions that Heathrow currently has a massive recruitment drive because they are ‘ramping up’ in terms of operations. Terminal 2 (T2) and Terminal 3 (T3) have re-opened and he is sure that Terminal 4 (T4) will re-open soon so getting back the expertise and talent lost back somehow. Asad explains that Heathrow is keen to retain talent so he will have opportunities and that his director is a supporter of the graduate scheme. The graduate scheme is an effective way of nurturing new talent and retaining them is important as recruitment is expensive especially when trying to hire experienced engineers. The graduate scheme brings in ‘fresh thinking’, ‘growing’ talent and expertise. He adds that he knows that he will have career progression opportunities, that they are, but now he is not sure what these will be.

Asad is happy with his current role so far. Resilience engineering was not something that he envisaged working in. He did not know that core resilience engineering existed before joining Heathrow. When he joined, he did not envisage himself in a permanent role either. It was challenging settling into the role because he was learning new things. However, he knew he had the technical knowledge as he has a masters degree in engineering. He notes that it becomes job specific, for example, how to write a contingency plan, formatting it correctly, learning how to obtain information from people. It has been particularly challenging but extremely rewarding. Resilience engineering is specific and there are few people who can say that they have done it. Asad is enjoying it so far. He does not want to do a job where he becomes comfortable. He would rather do one where he is challenged, keeps him engaged and pushes him to do better.

Asad lives close to the airport. He never considered location as a primary factor in applying for jobs. However, now that he has worked at Heathrow, it is a twenty-minute drive door-to-door on a good day depending on traffic, he has seen the importance of it. If he had a long commute, he would be less inclined to go to work to have face-to-face interactions with people. Asad mentions that he is an extrovert and that interaction with people is especially important to him. He comments that he struggled with being isolated from his work colleagues and remote working during the initial stages of the pandemic. He missed going for a coffee and talking to people in person. He also mentions that if there is an emergency, he can be at work in twenty to 30 minutes and that he can be home at that time after a long day at work. When he did have to come into work during the pandemic, the roads were much quieter, so it was a blissful commute. Now that everything is getting back to normal, the roads are busier and there is roadworks everywhere. He sometimes hates the commute in the morning now because he must take so many different routes to work. It was better at the start. He adds that he can see the planes coming into land and taking off from his bedroom window. It is the same as his grandparents’ house in Mumbai, so he has always been around planes and the airport and loves it.

Asad comments that parking for airport employees is good. Each office building has its own carport and there are additional colleague car parking facilities on the perimeter roads for T4, T3, T2 and T5. The airport encourages employees to use public transport and car share. [Sound was lost on the recording at this point.] When the sound returned, Asad mentions that it meant people did not need to worry about finding parking spaces. Asad acknowledges that his comments on public transport are based on his colleague’s experience as he does not use it. There is a bus from Slough which goes through Hounslow, then onto the main office building and other landside buildings. There is also the number seven from Maidenhead which goes to the main terminal building. A lot of people commute on TFL and the underground. In addition, Heathrow also encourages sustainable transport through offering cycle hire and an electric car hire scheme if people do have to drive. He notes that there are a lot of transport provision options to suit individual choice and needs.

Asad was asked to comment on air quality pre-Covid, during Covid and post-Covid. He acknowledges that he is not the most technical person on this topic but will do his best. In terms of noise, the first thing that he noticed was how quiet it was. Slough is not in the direct takeoff or landing paths, so it is not that noisy even, so it was noticeably quieter. In terms of the air quality, he notes that he believed it was better as there was less aircraft movement. Pre-covid, for those in the aircraft paths, air quality and noise would be an issue. The airport is aware of this, especially for local communities in the immediate vicinity of the airport. This is a big goal for Heathrow, not just for future expansion but for current infrastructure in terms of sustainability, air quality, noise reduction, and becoming a carbon zero/carbon neutral business. Heathrow is doing its best to achieve this. However, the bulk of the impact on this is due to the aircraft. Asad notes that the airport has no control over this because it is the airlines that decide how many and which type of aircraft to fly. This makes it hard as local people think it is the airport that is responsible for air quality. He mentions the government, the use of new fuel types, alternative fuels, and new aircraft. Heathrow has air quality monitoring and local pollution control in place. Asad remarks that although Heathrow is doing its best to control, improve and monitor these, it is sometimes ‘easier said than done.’

Asad really enjoyed travelling through the airport as a passenger before he joined the company. His favourite terminal is T5 probably because he has used it the most. He is comfortable with it both as a passenger and as an employee. He likes the sense of familiarity which he believes is present across all Heathrow’s terminals. He notes that this is quite important for passengers. He notes that passengers want easy way finding, easy access to facilities and welfare, a good selection of food and beverage outlets, duty free, fashion and retail outlets. Asad remarks that he has always enjoyed travelling through all Heathrow’s terminals that he has used. It has been a nice experience. It has not stressed him out that much. The only recent time was last November (2021) when he went back to India with his grandmother. She cannot walk far so they always request a wheelchair. This was a bit challenging as T3 is an old terminal, so the layout does not help with directing passengers to that area (support for passengers). He mentions that they had to walk a bit, then take a lift, then walk a bit more to get to the required zone so it was challenging. However, he goes on to mention that his experiences as a passenger have been positive because passengers know what to expect, for example, if they have little time between connections. Every time he travels to other airports, he subconsciously compares them to Heathrow.

Asad’s trip in November 2021 was the first time he had travelled since the pandemic started. He notes that it was a bit odd with the multiple tests. He comments that it did not give him anxiety, it was just unfamiliar because there is more to consider, for example, booking a test, avoiding people before and after the test, which is not something that is usual before travelling. There was a lot more to consider which did not help, especially for a family of four. He acknowledges that his case was different because he has family in India. He notes that it would be challenging for a family just going for a holiday. They would want to be relaxed not worrying about booking tests, passenger locator forms, ever changing entry requirements, vaccination requirements. When he landed in India, Omicron kicked off. He had a bad cold and sore throat before returning so he was worried that his test would be positive. This would mean that he would not be able to travel but neither would his entire family as they shared a house. This gave him anxiety. His parents had had to travel before as they had both lost one of their parents during the pandemic but for Asad and his sister it was their first time travelling since the pandemic, so the additional travel requirements were new to them.
Asad’s experience last November (2021) has not put him off travelling, in fact he is planning to travel more this year. Pre-pandemic, his aim was to have a three-to-four-day weekend every three to four months to take care of his mental wellbeing. He believes it is important to have something to look forward to and to be excited about, booking something three months ahead gives him that. The pandemic has had the effect of making him and his friends want to travel more. There is a strong demand for leisure travel. His best friend is planning to travel, as are two of his close white friends, his sister is going travelling for two weeks in July, his cousin is getting married by the end of the year in Abu Dhabi so he will go to the wedding. There was no reason for him to go travelling before, but he really wants to go travelling now as he enjoys going to other countries and exploring different countries. The Covid pandemic has made him want to go traveling even more. He believes that this is the same for other people.
Has always preferred Heathrow. There was one other airport within London from which he flew, however, he will not name but he mentions that he disliked it intensely. He states that, for him, it is common sense to fly from Heathrow as it is on his doorstep (twenty minutes away). He acknowledges that he could get a cheaper ticket from another airport, for example, Luton. Moreover, by the time he adds on travel time and the additional money to get there, especially to get an early flight as he would either need to book an overnight hotel stay or ‘get up at some ungodly hour’ to take a taxi to get there on time, it is not worth it. He would rather go direct from Heathrow and pay extra for the ticket as it is more convenient. He acknowledges that this can cause issues with his friends because they like flying budget airlines. However, he will not fly from another airport because the time spent travelling and the money spent commuting to it results in time wasted which could be spent enjoying holiday time.

Asad comments on changes that he has seen at Heathrow. One of the biggest impacts that he has seen due to the pandemic, has been the loss of various people through the severance scheme and redundancies. He knows a lot of people that he knows who have left the business. Visible changes for passengers have been Covid safety measures, for example, the introduction of enhanced cleaning such as sanitising toilets, seats, and areas, which is continuing. This is quite assuring for passengers. Heathrow was recently awarded the highest rating from Sky Trax for their standards of cleanliness and covid cleaning regime. It is comforting to know these are in place. Behind the scenes, the biggest change has been not seeing as many planes, not just from his window but when he comes to the airport. It is eerily quiet. He reminisces that when he came in July or August 2020 it was noticeably quiet and that it was very unnerving to see the airport like that because he has always seen the airport really busy. For example, Christmas 2019, the airport was packed with holidaymakers going away for the Christmas holidays. Asad explains that it was very odd to see the airport so quiet and desolate. Personally, he found it weird as the airport has lost a lot of staff, so they (remaining employees) had to pick up the workload. Now ‘things are ramping up’ but between now and the initial lockdown when Heathrow lost a lot of staff, there was a lot of work but not enough people to pick up work. This was quite hard on people’s wellbeing because working from home, office space and working space ‘kind of mingled’ and office hours were long. It was harder to segregate working life and personal life. Whereas now he comes to the office, does his work, goes home, and ‘that’s it done,’ he does not have to consider work until tomorrow morning unless he gets a call about something which has happened which requires him. Asad acknowledges that getting used to that new way of working (remote working from home during lockdown) was quite difficult for a lot of people.

Asad was asked about passenger levels at Heathrow. He notes that passenger levels are not at the levels that they were at pre-pandemic but that that are going up. It is becoming busier and busier, airlines are scheduling more flights, and leisure travelers are increasing. The biggest impact has been on business travelers as businesses have realised that meetings can be done online on Teams or Zoom. Asad thinks that business travel will take longer to increase, noting that some meetings will have to take place face-to-face rather than online. For example, it may be a meeting in Germany which takes two hours to get to, but it is worth doing it because the business benefits of doing that meeting face-to-face outweigh the benefits of doing it virtually. He reiterates that there are business passengers but that he thinks business travel will take longer to recover. However, leisure travel spikes upwards every time restrictions are eased. In the past when red, amber, green travel has been eased there have been big spikes in bookings. Even now, the airport is expecting an increase over Easter, with the possibility of 200,000 leisure passengers per day for the first time since the pandemic. The airport is expecting at least over 100,000 passengers per day during the Easter peak. Asad remarks that this is very odd for them (the airport) as one year ago, there were only four thousand passengers a day ‘which is peanuts.’ Passenger levels are increasing slowly. The airport expects these to have reached half of pre-pandemic levels this year and should hopefully have reached pre-pandemic levels by next year.

Passenger levels were exceptionally low during the initial pandemic. They were so low, four to eight thousand passengers each day, it was concerning as the airport was used to 200,000 per day. Currently, passenger levels are in the tens of thousands daily on a regular basis. These should increase over the Easter peak which might reach one fifty. The airport is confident the levels will increase steadily.

Asad’s most significant memory of Heathrow is quite hard to choose. Workwise he really enjoys working there. He has travelled through Heathrow as a passenger a lot, so he thinks it is hard to choose just one. However, he chooses his first time at Heathrow, noting had it not been an enjoyable experience it would have been difficult for him to come back to work at the airport. He notes that this is an important memory for him. He also mentions that his overall experience of travelling through Heathrow on several occasions and meeting people at Heathrow, for example picking up family and friends from the airport/being met himself, is significant. It is more a collection of memories rather than a singular one which is significant to him.

Asad would like Heathrow to return to pre-pandemic levels and the pre-pandemic experience of travelling through Heathrow for passengers. He comments that Covid has affected each person differently and uniquely, for example, some people have lost loved ones, some people have not seen family for an exceptionally long time. He thinks the journey to recovery will be slow but that it is important to be patient to allow each person the time that they need to get to where they need to be to allow for that next stage of growth. He does not think that it can just go back to how it used to run and function pre-pandemic immediately. He acknowledges that he does not know what the future holds for him, nor does he know what it holds for Heathrow, but he hopes it goes well. Pre-Covid the airport had rapid expansion plans so he hopes that in time those will be able to go ahead and go well for the airport. He acknowledges that his comments may appear biased as he is an airport employee. Asad believes that the benefits of Heathrow’s expansion far outweigh the risks in terms of focus on sustainability, carbon neutrality, environmental action, and other areas. He is aware that the airport's future expansion plans are not detrimental to the environment but are helping the environment.

Asad was asked about his experience of coming to the UK as a child. He would have been in Year 4/Year 5 at that time. He recalls that he did not know that he was coming to the UK until one of his aunts asked him what he thought about coming here. He mentions that his dad was not happy about this as he had not told Asad yet. Asad was excited but nervous. He spent the summer term at his new school in Year 5 then returned for Year 6 before continuing to grammar school. Year 5 was interesting because he had a strong accent and as a result, he was heavily bullied in his first two weeks. As a child he struggled with this. He notes that the excitement of moving to a new country was overshadowed by this. That experience affected him, he really hated going to school, and was worried about how he was going to be ‘picked on.’ He spent the summer asking his mother to go home to India. It affected his experience through Year 6, after which he went to grammar school. Asad recalls that grammar school was different as he was considered not to be a threat and he was not bullied at all. He has not kept in touch with anyone from primary school due to the negative experience there, but he has one or two people that he keeps in touch with from grammar school. Asad comments that it was a bittersweet period as the excitement of moving to the UK was impacted by his first few weeks at primary school.

Asad recalls that although Slough has a strong South Asian influence, he does not believe that this influenced his dad’s decision to bring the family there. Asad states that it was due to his dad’s decision was based on being close to his office (company head office was in Slough), good transport links such as its proximity to the airport, and central London in terms of train travel. When his dad looked for a property to rent initially, he also took into consideration primary and secondary school provision. Education was important as both his parents are graduates. Asad also comments that there is an expectation that South Asian children will be high achievers. He believes that his dad was not looking for a South Asian community but for an area which was a convenient area, had decent properties, good locality, good education provision, and good transportation. It is coincidental that there has been an explosion in the South Asian Diaspora over the years in the area but that is due to all the factors which Asad has mentioned above. It is very well placed. When he first moved there, Asad was not concerned about the lack of South Asian people. He was excited about being close to the airport and London and being in a new country.

Asad was given the opportunity to ask any questions that he may have before the interview ended. He asked about the recording being used as part of the National Portrait Gallery. Anne-Marie explained that the recordings are part of the National Portrait Gallery Project ‘Inspiring People’ which is being run while the gallery is closed for major refurbishment. It involves reaching out to different parts of the UK to ensure that their collections are accessible and to engage lots of different communities in the National Portrait Gallery Collection. The content for that exhibition is still being formulated but it has not been designed yet. One key feature will be a documentary featuring young people who have worked on the project from local schools in the Ealing and Southall area. There may be material from some of these recordings which may be relevant to the material which they produce. So sound bites from the interviews may be used to complement that material. It has not been formulated so depending on the material that we have collected, it may or may not be used for the exhibition.

Anne-Marie offered to send Asad some links about the project to Asad if he was interested. Asad was interested and is happy to take part. Anne-Marie confirmed that once the exhibition and documentary are ready, the information about it would be sent to him and to Heathrow so that he could come to see it.

The interview ended at 14:05.

Pooja Makol, Monday 14th March 2022, 3-4pm

I found out about the project because I am part of the diversity group which considers issues around diversity, disabilities, and inclusion.

I wanted to apply because of the current situation in the world and I agree with the idea of inclusion, that every community, every individual is important. I did not apply simply because I am part of the target group.

2.48

I am from India and have been in the UK for 11 years, which is not a long time compared to some people! It is different community, different culture, everything is so different to India. A different world to me. I had challenges though I feel blessed to be here in the UK.

My husband has been in the UK for a long time, he came to study and then settled. I got the opportunity to move to join him in the UK after we married. I had a choice to move back or stay, I gave myself some time to see if I could blend in with the culture and feel comfortable. Things went well with friends and work, everything worked out, so I decided to stay in this Country, and I feel happy now.

04.28

My family is in India, I have a little family here, two children, a 7-year-old girl and 3-year-old boy.

My immediate family is in India, we visit them whenever we can, we have some distant family here, we often go to see them when we can, technology has made it easier to see and talk to them.

I have friends here, work colleagues have become good friends, we see each other once a month so we can get away from our families to have our own time. Also, we celebrate Indian festivals with family friends. An old English couple are our neighbors, they are wonderful people and we look after each other. They are an old couple, so they like to see children around and we do not have parents here, so we like to see them too.

06.16

I have worked for Heathrow for nearly 6 years. To be honest I joined Heathrow by chance, I always wanted to join Heathrow but I thought because of my employment and visa situation there would be criteria of a British passport or indefinite leave to remain however my friend advised me and encouraged me to go for the job.

When I started working as a security officer, the Company were so nice, there were lots of opportunities to progress.

After I was blessed with my second child, a son, I moved to the ID Business Centre, and now I’m working as an Intern and getting trained as infrastructure project manager, different path for my career, I have no technical or engineering background, but Heathrow introduced a new programme of colleague internships. I feel blessed to have been selected.

My current role is quite different to security and it is ongoing training process.. In my current role there is a lot to learn, it is a completely different world to me. Initially I thought if I will ever get to understand this , however my line manager and colleagues are supportive and good at explaining. I have my own projects now, I cannot disclose much information about the projects, enabling me to do something live rather than assisting with projects.

10.45

Travelling experience from Heathrow – good experience, helpful people, information for departures and check-in displayed, so smooth, no negative, no bad history. What is it they say ‘making every journey better’ - they prove it!

When I first came to the UK it was my first trip abroad. I understand English but I struggle with accents. I flew Virgin Atlantic and the staff were helpful. Border forces were helpful with visa and medical examination because I was coming to Uk for the very first time. It was exciting because I was joining my husband after 6 months of getting married. I found it a smooth trip.

My husband and my cousin from India with partner met me at the Airport to welcome me with happy faces, my husband had a candlelight dinner for me that evening. It was summer and the days were long, the airport was clean, facilities clean, people were helpful, staff in purple vests were supportive and gave me directions to immigration and baggage collection, welcoming people who have travelled 8 hours.

14.43

It was a lengthy process to get the job as Security officer, there were certain requirements such as DBS and background history. A friend used to work for Omniserve who used to supply ambassadors to the Airport to manage passengers. A close friend from Kenya advised me to apply for the security officer role, I thought I was not eligible. The process consisted of a telephone interview, online test, assessment day at airport, further exams, role play activity, face to face interview, online tests, lengthy but transparent. I was blessed that I got through the process easily. There were 50 people but only 5 moved on to the next stage and I felt proud of myself. I did not wait long to hear about the outcome of the interview which worked in my favour. I then went through background checks and DBS; I had my interview in March (exactly 6 years ago) and started job in May so a couple of months later. Between 2016 – 2020 I was a security officer. I was off 1 year for my pregnancy during this period. I had flexibility with shifts, I could manage childcare as my daughter had on going health condition when young with hospital admissions, but my colleagues and manager were supportive, and I could take time off easily. I had support from management about progressing career, I did a few interviews before getting this role, ID management officer management had belief in me, I did projects on my own and I enjoyed it for 1.5 years.

19.54

I was super happy to get a role at Heathrow, it is not easy to get a job at Heathrow or any job, I feel blessed as was the start of my career journey. Slowly and gradually grew in my career path, never a workplace where I would feel racism, very inclusive, lots of memories coming here to work, good exposure.

I have come across nice and understanding people, I helped passengers their smooth journey through security lanes. I tried to be supportive to parents with children as it is not easy to travel with little children. UK requirements of liquids outside the bag can be overwhelming especially when going through security as this liquid rule is not applicable in all the countries. I always try to be helpful, especially with parents as they need extra support or older people who do not understand or cannot hear properly.

People get really upset when they are limited to what they can take on the aircraft, a gentleman had been nice but when I told him about legal requirement about liquids he started to empty to bottles there and then which was against health and safety, when people travel different airports and countries and all countries have their own requirements about what they can and cannot take with them,

26.45

I have not travelled for the last two years because of Covid but usually when I travel to India I use Heathrow, and I use Gatwick for European destinations (cheaper). Heathrow is friendly, people have been helpful when I travel, additional requirements and questions answered, airline staff very good and helpful, good airport to travel through with kids play area in departure, good restaurants to have food, quite expensive so rarely it is ok.

I am from Bhilai lived most of my life there, moved to Delhi, worked a few years then got opportunity to move to uk

My town is not very popular, in Chhattisgarh region, central part of India.

Prior to covid in last 3 years, I have not travelled outside of the Uk at all, went on holiday to European countries or to India to see family. Covid situation and with small children, and working in an operational role, if I go and travel and get stuck there are limited numbers of leave to be approved, causing an awkward situation and I would need extra support, so I have avoided travelling. We have travelled locally and explored lots in the Uk. It became an opportunity to explore our own country now rather than travelling outside. Not being able to see family this pinches me but atleast I have social media so I can have face to face conversations.

I try to go to India once very 2 years, trips to India are expensive, I used to go on an Indian holiday one year, and next year European holiday. My mum visits too, she can spend good quality time with my kids as she can stay 2-3 months, when I go to India, I can only spend 2-3 weeks.

I live close to the airport, 15 minutes away from terminal 2/3, in Ashford Surrey. I do not feel I live close to the airport, I have not seen aircraft close and it does not disturb me. With new carbonisation every company is reducing fuel emissions. Living close has affected me in a good way as I can travel to work easily. Guests from India always come to my house because it is close to the Airport.

I travel via Heathrow whenever it is possible and my kids like watching aircraft. There is a place nearby where you can view the aircraft, so I take my children there. That is the only reason I go there – either work or for my kids.

36.30

When I had first child I used to work in a city. I was heavily pregnant, lots of tube strikes etc no flexibility for pregnancy extra time or space.

When I informed Heathrow of my pregnancy they were so nice and welcoming, everything they could do they did. I have not worked in many companies in UK Heathrow looks after working mothers, time off flexibility, reduced hours, cannot stand for long hours so have resources for this, they do everything they possibility can. My pregnancy at Heathrow - I had anxiety problems and panic attacks, Heathrow looked after me with sickness and leave. After I had my little one, they proposed the idea of job share, 2 shifts on and 4 off instead of 4 shifts on and 2 off – not every company will offer this flexibility. I could choose my shifts. Heathrow look after employees with medical conditions or pregnancy, thing staff are important to them. On my maternity leave I was off for 11 month and then job shared for 7-8 months and then changed the role. I had childcare arrangements then.

My new role is non-perational - I have flexibility to manage my own hours, my manager appreciates family time, they advised I can do school runs etc., it is more about getting work done rather than time. Weekly review meetings where we review each other.

42.10

Time has flown away; I was so happy when I got a new job at Heathrow such as my new role - overall journey has been productive.

Impact of covid – now we have booster and vaccinations, covid considered normal cold and flu now, hope it does not affect people so severely. I cannot go anywhere this year as my husband's parents are staying in the country to visit and I want to spend time with them, though I am flexible from October to travel. Workwise Heathrow look after their employees by supplying hand sanitisers, face masks, proper deep cleaning of workplace, job security of workplace – Heathrow did not make anyone leave there was voluntary redundancy, the company did not ask anyone to leave.

I am thinking of calling my mother to come over this summer or later this year. She has had a booster, we are moving closer to reuniting everyone again. All the time we could not see anyone, all we had was laptop, teams etc. Life is getting back to normal. I took 5 ½ months old daughter to India via Heathrow on my own. I know some people there; staff support single parents travelling through the airport. Understanding I had a little baby, helping me through the scanner. My requirements are not like everyone's requirements. The staff treated me very well. My daughter was a particularly good baby and would go to everyone.

48.40

My daughter enjoys travelling though we have not travelled recently. We are going to Birmingham this weekend. She is engrossed in our culture, my sister-in-law is getting married this weekend so she has gotten her ethnic clothing out, matching earrings, make up – it is like a holiday for her. She likes flying, she last flew in 2019 when we went to India for my brother's wedding in 2019. She loves that she can watch as many movies as she wants during the 8 hours flight. My daughter is a nonstop chatterbox, she loves talking and trying different food, she kept pressing the button to ask the airhostess to bring snacks. Boys are challenging work, I found raising a daughter easier than raising my son. He has mood swings, terrible 3’s - it takes longer to convince boys.

Last 6 years have been good I did not feel the years, I have had good managers which has encouraged me to grow and stay motivated.

The interview ended at 52.48

Parbhat Smith (Pat Smith) - Monday 7th March 2022, 3.30pm

I was born in the Punjab in 1959 and I came to the UK (United Kingdom) at age 5 in 1965. I can remember my arriving at Heathrow for the first time. I can remember getting off the steps of the aeroplane and seeing my father straight away standing on top of the red brick wall. I had not seen father for a year or two. I am 63 this month, I have lived around Heathrow all my life. I have lived in Southall and in Cranford, under the flightpath. I lived in Kew Gardens where there are lots of aeroplanes, now I live in Sunningdale also near Heathrow. Heathrow has been a part of my life ever since I landed in the country. I have been married for 35 years to an Englishman hence my name is Smith. My father is no longer alive, and mother now lives in Langley near Colnbrook, which has always been part of Heathrow culture and expansion. My mother worked for British Airways (BA) cleaning aircraft and catering.

I started a business when I was 30 making Indian snacks, Heston industrial unit, the unit I hired was an old hangar, outside the unit was some steps that apparently Neville Chamberlain had used for his famous speech, there was no sign, not sure if it is still now there. I like that bit of history and hope it is still there. Surprised that nobody has ever investigated this and put a plaque or historical sign there.

Mother and father had two children (me and my brother). My father was a teacher in India, quite happy. My mother persuaded my father to go to UK, he was given a voucher, asked to come over and he thought he would make money and then go back. He was a writer and poet; his background was academic. When he came over, he did not teach, he did manual work, his brothers supported him (my uncles). My mum's older brother had a house in Southall, they all shared a house, and each family would have one room, everyone was building up to buy a property and bring their wives over. Later my father wanted to go back but there were complications – his family said because he had gone to the UK, he could no longer inherit anything back home even though he was the oldest son, they threatened him, he had nowhere to go back to, this affected him a lot. Anyone who came over was expected to send money home which he did but at the same time he could not take any pieces of anything even though he was entitled. Father had a turban (Sikh) in India and when he came to the UK the first thing, he and other Indian men did was remove turban and cut hair short because it made it easier for them to get work. I spotted my father that day I arrived at Heathrow even though I had not seen him for several years and still recognised him without his turban. My father was my life, I used to walk to school with him. I still recognised him so the aircraft must have been quite close to the brick wall. Many Indians travelled to the UK because they were asked to come. Domestic English people did not want to work nightshifts, immigrants did. There was plenty of work and that is the work that they could get.

My father was involved in setting up poetry sessions, friends would come round, any literary figure from the Punjab would be hosted, visitors and writers from India, there was a big community, they organised poetry reading events. My father carried on writing until he died, he wrote in Punjabi several books. He must have experienced prejudice – ‘Us Black People’ contained his experiences, sensitivities, of being coloured. He wrote another book about going back and not being able to go back - he wanted to go back but physically could not because what he left behind is no longer there. One book is on the curriculum in University in India. He got involved in publishing magazines, Indian Punjabi – 1st Punjabi newspaper in Southall – ‘Des Pardes’. Indian people did not have anything to read so he and friends published and printed materials, they got information together on events and where to buy tickets, information about back home and here etc. He was heavily involved in the literary area.

The voucher for my father’s airfare – I may still have it. I remember he was allowed 3 pounds in his pocket. He relied on help from the relatives, her uncles, he got nothing more than the voucher.

My father worked in manual labour as he was physically very fit and strong. He worked for Eagle Airlines, then Nestle, I remember him coming home with chocolate. He drove workers to and from the Airport in a van, he worked nights. He did a librarian ship course but did not stick to it and got distracted. He also worked for social security, but it was not stimulating enough, he needed to do more academic stuff, he just wanted to read and write or work hard, he never went back to teaching.

I lived in Southall when we arrived, not that close to Heathrow, I cannot remember the aeroplanes there. Heathrow was small and did not feel close to the Airport. Cranford was next to Heathrow, you could wave to people on the aircraft. I remember when I was doing my A Levels I stood in garden talking to the lady next door she was about 90 with white hair, during 1970s heatwave, and we could almost see the people inside the planes. It was very noisy, so we did not live there for that long, we then moved to Langley. My Mum still lives there and does not want to move. Mum has seen Heathrow expand a lot and worked at the Airport for a long time. All the terminals are approved – she is already talking about terminal 7!

I lived in Kew Gardens for 10 years and did not notice any noise because I worked but the day I stayed at home and opened back door and found the aeroplanes were very noisy. We moved from there to Chiswick. Then we moved to Sunningdale where there are no planes.

I do not have memories of the actual airport when I first arrived because I was too young. I remember coming down the steps, being able to see people lining up and pointing out my father. I was taken to Southall, I remember hearing an ice cream van, my uncle bought me an ice cream, I had never had one before and I handed back the cone as didn’t realise you could eat it. The Airport was part of my life, everybody worked at Heathrow and that is where everyone went. We went back to India every year so I must have experienced Heathrow all the time from when I was young. I travelled from Heathrow all my life, we always used one terminal, terminal 3 the only terminal available at the time. I remember Heathrow being quite small, now it is a maze. Driving round Heathrow now it is a vast area. People did not all have cars then, we did not drive there. I do not have many memories of Heathrow when I was young.

As an adult I use Heathrow all the time, I travel a lot. I go to India twice a year and have lots of holidays. Heathrow has changed beyond recognition, but air travel has. Being able to book tickets, going from 1 terminal to 5 terminals, the actual experience is very different but like this around the world. The last time I travelled was last November (2021) via Heathrow during pandemic. It felt strange as staff had no idea of what they were doing in terms of forms, who checked what. It was usually very professional and well organised. I had a BA flight, no one knew what forms to check at each stage. The Airport is now much busier and getting a shuttle to different terminal is a big deal. Lounges are very busy, it seems safer out of lounge than in the lounge due to covid. I am going to India in April and Rome in April via Heathrow so hopefully all will be ok.

I normally fly to India twice a year and go on trips in Europe, but we did not travel at all since the start of the pandemic. First travel was last November (2021). We could not book before this as India did not allow people to come in. We lost 2 tickets and travel was not worth the hassle. It was more stress booking than the benefit of travel, so we decided to stay at home. We have a house in India and assets so that is why I travel there; it is not really a holiday trip. My mother and father planned to retire to India to spend summer here (UK) and winter in India, they built a house in my name and brother’s name. My father died and my mother cannot keep going over so there’s things to be taken care of.

My parents worked shifts at Heathrow, I remember coming home from school and no one was at home, my brother and I would feast on biscuits and angel delight. My mum would brush my hair the night before so I could get up and go to school without needing my hair brushed so she must have gone to work before I went to school. My father slept all day because he worked at night, we were good kids, so it was not a problem.

My mother cleaned aircrafts, was involved in catering and the staff canteen, preparing food for aeroplanes, etc. She worked for BA for about 10-15 years. My auntie and uncles also worked at BA as they were known as good employer good benefits and pensions.

My mother retired long ago, she is 84. She would be a potential interview candidate as has great memories of landing etc. My mum and friends sometimes go on a trip to Heathrow for an outing using their free bus pass. They just go for coffee and to have a look around the airport and then come back. Heathrow is something new and exciting, there are shops, and it is good to be somewhere different.

Everyone wanted to work at BA as they gave staff discount. When I was a student staff discount went to all the family. I was a standby, sometimes I got first class tickets if there was a seat on the airplane available. I went to Canada to study for my MA because I knew I could get flights back and forth.

This was great benefit, my mother got flights to India every year. I travelled to India, Japan, back and forwards to Canada, went to Italy and Europe with my family, America and Los Angeles, Grenada and West Indies. I had lots of overseas student friends who I could visit using the cheap tickets. Planes were often empty in those days but now it is a lot busier. You could not quickly book tickets, you would have to go to travel agent, book it and they would post it. I would stand by the counter waiting for people to check in and then get on board if there was a space. I remember getting stuck in India at Delhi airport because I could not get a flight back. My auntie and I slept at the airport for a week until we could get on a flight home, my parents were furious. Those benefits have now gone. All staff used to have the same benefits weather a cleaner or captain. BA have now changed this depending on length of service and ranking. It was exciting because you could go to the airport and find out where you could get to depending on space. That is why a lot of Indian people enjoyed working for BA because you can travel back and forwards to India cheaply otherwise it is expensive.

The day I landed is my most significant memory of Heathrow – being a family again, having been split up and suddenly reunited in the same place which is so important when a child. It was a long flight and my mother was breast feeding my brother, he had a blood shot eye as a hook got caught in his eye. Another memory is taking my grandfather to Heathrow airport. I must have been about 16/17 and the last thing he said was ‘marry an Indian’. I did not take that seriously but that was the last piece of advice he gave me.

Also, in April 1993 I was pregnant expecting my son any day. My husband and I went to Heathrow to collect my sister-in-law who had gone on holiday to Spain. I told my husband we had to leave and go to the Hospital straight away as I thought I might give birth. So, we left the airport and drove to Hammersmith Hospital where we arrived just in time as I was already 10 1/2 cm dilated.

I’ve not thought of Heathrow as a concept, but it has always been a part of our life. Heathrow has evolved I have seen the changes. Heathrow is connected to me since the day I came to the UK.